tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post7855755090338487499..comments2024-03-23T01:31:13.502+01:00Comments on Jabal al-Lughat: Why the sun really does riseLameen Souag الأمين سواقhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00773164776222840428noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-84093950451597286382017-02-17T07:05:15.545+01:002017-02-17T07:05:15.545+01:00In Russian, we say "солнце встаёт" (i.e....In Russian, we say "солнце встаёт" (i.e. "the sun stands up"), or sometimes "восходит" (literally "walks up", but it's a very archaic verb, whose only other modern meaning I can think of is "to climb [a mountain]" - though the perfective взойти has some other non-sun-related senses).<br />For the other direction, we say "солнце садится" (i.e. "the sun sits down"), or, perhaps more often, "заходит" ("walks in", weirdly enough, which doesn't really make any sense).January First-of-Maynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-79009300577462574742017-02-15T02:36:40.876+01:002017-02-15T02:36:40.876+01:00Somehow, this discussion leaves me sitting on my b...Somehow, this discussion leaves me sitting on my balcony with Richard Dawkins, saying "look at the beautiful sunrise", and him saying to me in his quacky, pedantic voice: "actually, the Sun doesn't rise, it's the rotation of the Earth." Like, duh!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752842202640586894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-82448948691090547782017-02-06T23:09:12.102+01:002017-02-06T23:09:12.102+01:00The sun brightens? Fascinating.The sun brightens? Fascinating.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-85024939570010737722017-02-06T10:21:05.225+01:002017-02-06T10:21:05.225+01:00David: Interesting suggestion. It's not obvio...David: Interesting suggestion. It's not obvious to me that "the cake sets" is the opposite of "the cake rises" - OK, a cake stops rising when it sets, but surely the opposite would be for it to start caving in or collapsing or something, like a soufflé (a soufflé doesn't set does it? I'm not much of a baker.) In standard Arabic, the polysemy pattern is quite different: the verb for the sun rising is ʔašraqa, a denominal verb from "east", also used for "to light up due to sunrise", "to dye too brightly", "to turn red", but with no uses related to "going upwards".<br /><br />Y: While I'd agree that there is a common conceptual core motivating the polysemy of "rise", I'd also say that it is not possible to predict the correct usages of "rise" from that conceptual core alone; you have to resort to multiple senses for that.Lameen Souag الأمين سواقhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00773164776222840428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-68392694002836727142017-02-04T20:06:15.772+01:002017-02-04T20:06:15.772+01:00I'd say that there's one meaning of rise, ...I'd say that there's one meaning of <i>rise,</i> but that like all language, it refers to perception, not to some absolute physical fact. A helium balloon in an animated film is undoubtedly 'rising', although technically the balloon and its rise are illusions without any physical reality. As to fall/set etc., that's just a matter of lexical specialization by referent. These words are not strictly defined by their antonyms.Ynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13177437.post-66423668308830634222017-02-04T18:08:07.576+01:002017-02-04T18:08:07.576+01:00Ah, but wait a second! Cakes rise. Isn't "...Ah, but wait a second! Cakes rise. Isn't "set" the opposite of that?<br /><br />German has two separate words, and indeed celestial bodies rise like a cake. (And sink like a ship, interestingly, or like the world at its end.)David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.com